Friday Evening Question #4: Options in a World of Compromise

"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty) 01/03/2014 at 18:00 • Filed to: friday evening question, feq, nismo, nissan, juke, juke nismo rs, 4wd, turbo, manual, manual transmission

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The world hates the Juke. We don't share the same sentiment, so when I heard that !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (6MT and AWD), I felt like Nissan had come too close to doing us all a solid to once again have been juked by the bean counters figuring that we can only partially have what we want. Now, I would not buy a Juke. I don't have nearly enough money, I don't like it enough, and there are far better options (particularly used ones from decades past) to feel much of a desire to own one. It just seems like a fun car, but you would simply feel so limited having to choose between FWD and automatic transmissions. Without a shadow of a doubt, I would opt for the one with three pedals every time, but they just would have made a car that met more people's expectations had they decided to give us the full monty. Anyways, I ramble; like the last FEQ, this one is about options. What are some significant and/or senseless ways that automakers led us on but did not give us the combination of things we wanted (because it would have just been too perfect)?

Things were really looking up for the Juke, what with four driven wheels and three pedals... or maybe that's just the headlights being on the top of the front fenders.

Questions of Friday evenings past:

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Brian Silvestro > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 18:02

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MAUNAL F-TYPE COUPE

/thread

HammerheadFistpunch > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 18:07

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Diesel...in anything. On a special case note, I wish to have diesel/AWD/manual. Does. Not. Exists in the US...at all.

Tom McParland > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 18:11

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I would have so bought one of these if I could get the 6MT. I can forgive the FWD and the kinda under-powered engine...but I know how good Honda/Acura's manuals are and I just can't get past that.

However, I can forgive the A4 Avant for being auto only because a) it looks great b) AWD with rear-bias and c) it's quick enough.

I can also forgive the new V60 for being auto only because a) looks good b) AWD option c)325 hp option and d) no one else in the world is getting a T6 6MT

...but here is the crazy thing I cannot forgive the F31 328T for being auto only despite the fact that it looks good and is pretty quick because a) I know how good BMW manuals are b) the E91 had a manual option c) everyone else gets a 6MT option so is it really too much to ask for it to be special order?

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Tom McParland 01/03/2014 at 18:19

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Good ones. Why, oh why, wagon makers?

Tom McParland > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 18:21

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It's all about the sales numbers...wagons aren't going to sell well, manual wagons of this price range are going to sit on the lots for a while. But that still doesn't explain why BMW can't let you order one.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Brian Silvestro 01/03/2014 at 18:21

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What I wouldn't give for Jaguar to make one if I were super wealthy...

I guess then I could have whatever Jags I wanted to have. Whatever whatever, really.

What I wouldn't give to be super wealthy...

Brian Silvestro > Tom McParland 01/03/2014 at 18:21

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I think it's amazing that BMW offered the E91 with RWD. This means it had RWD, a touring body, a manual, and a N/A straight six. Stunning.

Tom McParland > Brian Silvestro 01/03/2014 at 18:23

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And every time one pops up on my Autorader alerts I have a crisis...especially if it is an M-sport.

Brian Silvestro > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 18:24

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All I want is unlimited money. Is that too much to ask?

EDIT: just looked it up. It is in fact too much.

Brian Silvestro > Tom McParland 01/03/2014 at 18:26

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It is considered royalty of the highest order in my world.

Lets Just Drive > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 18:26

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This.

Now, don't go getting it twisted - I love the twins and I'm not a hater. What I'm saying is this; the twins are the ultimate tease because they come so close to delivering perfection without ever following through.

Subaru and Toyota, they tempted us with the idea of a small 2+2 rear-wheel drive sports coupe and we thought, "A Supra STI?!"

Instead they delivered a better-Miata, A more-MX5, and it was good. But then, as though learning from Icarus, they pulled back. There would be no turbo, no WRX version. What we had, we had and that was it. But we already had it, in the S2K and MX5 only now with a bit more space inside? C'mon, we begged, take it all the way!

But no.

She was done. We'd found ourselves in her bedroom and she was shouldering us out the door.

Such a tease.

Tom McParland > Brian Silvestro 01/03/2014 at 18:28

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Problem is they are so damn overpriced...because of their rarity.

Brian Silvestro > Tom McParland 01/03/2014 at 18:30

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I'd gladly pay $10k over a reasonable price just for the bodystyle.

Somethingwittyer likes noisy > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 18:31

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I would so buy the shit out of a 4wd Juke with a manual. Nissan had a chance to take away sales from the WRX, but fell flat on their face to do so.

Tom McParland > Brian Silvestro 01/03/2014 at 18:31

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I take it you are young and single...there is no way the wife would let me pay 10k over "market value" for that car...and as someone who brokers deals regularly I just couldn't bring myself to pay that much. I would pay "book value" for a rare car, but not much more.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 18:33

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For a while, you couldn't get a sonic RS in blue......I'll say that again - every other trim level could be had in blue but if you bought the most expensive and best one, you couldn't get it in blue......HOW THE F%$# AM I SUPPOSED TO DO "SONIC THE HATCHBACK" IF MY SONIC IS RED, CHEVROLET?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Thankfully they listened and now I can do "Sonic the hatchback". What is "Sonic the hatchback"? Glad you asked!

1) Get a Sonic RS in blue and paint the front wheels white and rear wheels red.

2) Go to an autocross

3) Play some sonic the hedgehog music over your stereo with the windows down such as the following -

4) Get a go-pro and record the run or have someone record the whole run

5) Dub a ring collecting noise for every gate you hit and then do the ring scattering noise when you miss a gate over your go-pro video. Bonus points if you have a friend in your car doing this live as you go around the course

6) Profit. Loads and loads of profit. You've won at autocrossing.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Tom McParland 01/03/2014 at 18:36

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I definitely understand for the other automakers, but BMW has always somewhat geared the 3-series towards enthusiasts and has tried to make the driving experience a bit more immersive than the competition—while I'm sure the typical wagon buyer is fine with an auto trans (and won't even use paddle shifters) there is a decent number of people who decide on buying a wagon simply to avoid the bland nature of minivans while retaining the functionality (and that is where the desire for a third pedal comes from). I think to retain an image of sportiness that has always set it apart from MB, they need to continue to cater to the enthusiast base, which consists of the people who give car buying advice in the first place.

Brian Silvestro > Tom McParland 01/03/2014 at 18:36

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Young and single indeed! In reality I have no idea what I'd do. But I promise you I will sell my organs for a manual F-Type shooting brake. Guaranteed.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > Lets Just Drive 01/03/2014 at 18:38

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I figured they gave us theses cars as a sort of blank canvas to build upon. They're alright in stock form but take to modifications quite well. this is also supported by the basis that in japan the BRZ can be bought with a roll cage pre-installed from the factory and partly stripped out with steel wheels and the gt-86 can be purchased with an unpainted front bumper so its designed to be replaced with an aftermarket one.

Lets Just Drive > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ 01/03/2014 at 18:40

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I don't disagree.

I'm just saying that it's a huge let down that the OEM didn't.

Burt > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 18:43

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America's Buick Regal GS.

I was tantalized with The Opel equivalent, which has a turbo V6, a six speed, all wheel drive, and a rear lsd. What did we actually get? A 2.0 turbo and front wheel drive. At least it still had the six speed.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Burt 01/03/2014 at 18:46

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So true. If only it were like the Europeans'. I've heard bad things about the 6MT, but whenever that happens I tend to take a step back and say "It's got three pedals; quit yer bitchin!" Same with the ATS. I'm going to have to read up on the opel counterpart, now.

Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/03/2014 at 18:49

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This is so perfect I don't even

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' 01/03/2014 at 19:04

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It's my secret strategy to get class wins - make my opponents laugh so hard they can't focus.

AMC/Renauledge > Burt 01/03/2014 at 19:40

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Yeah. Unfortunately, that old boat-anchor 2.8T V6 was extremely temperamental (which is why Cadillac only offered a lower-tuned version in the SRX for 8 months), added a bunch of weight over the front wheels, wouldn't pass US emissions, and would have been eligible for the gas-guzzler tax.

The 2.0T has the same amount of torque as the 2.8T V6, adds much more lightness over the front wheels, gets way better fuel economy and lower emissions, and costs less.

The FWD-only thing sucked, but for 2014, they've added Haldex to the options list. Except you can't get the Haldex system with 3 pedals.

So it still sorta belongs up there.

Burt > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 19:41

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I haven't driven one, but I've heard the same. Like you said, a manual is still a manual, I drove my friends Z3 with a shift know that kept coming off, and it was still more fun than an auto would have been.

Burt > AMC/Renauledge 01/03/2014 at 19:45

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While tat may be true, we were still led to believe we would get 300 horsepower through a six speed to all our wheels, and instead we got 270 through the front. The new GS is slightly neutered compared to last year on power, and I would rather have a stick and front wheel drive than a torque converter auto and all wheel drive on a daily driver, which is what this is.

Jayhawk Jake > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 20:14

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I'd have considered a Juke if you could get it with MT and AWD. It's just quirky enough that I like it.

IIRC, the Audi A3 had a similar issue. No Quattro and manual. I might be wrong though

Jayhawk Jake > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/03/2014 at 20:16

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Okay, I'll make a video of driving the sonic while listening to sonic. Bonus: the drive will be to Sonic.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Jayhawk Jake 01/03/2014 at 20:21

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Agreed. And you're right :(

FP article showed it with a MT, I commented gleefully, and everyone informed me of the fact that it was a euro model (Cool story, bro.)

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Burt 01/03/2014 at 20:27

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Here, here. I will take the joyous satisfaction of rowing my own with even the worst modern manual transmission over waiting for the transmission to shift for me or even clicking paddles. However, if anyone wants to ship me a P1, old MB, or boaty American cruiser, I'll give you my shipping address gladly despite a missing pedal.

Burt > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/03/2014 at 20:36

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I like a good dual clutch as well, but after driving a manual every day for a month, it's something I really enjoy having. The one place I wold prefer a dual clutch to a manual is the track, where I'm trying to get that last 1/10th of a second. I don't hate autos either, my main car is a slushbox, and I had a ball in an auto Camaro on my honeymoon over the summer.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Brian Silvestro 01/03/2014 at 20:36

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Facts are unimportant. What is important is having a gun and a large sack. And an F-Type coupe with a clutch.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Burt 01/03/2014 at 20:39

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a DD or V8 car is fine with AT and a track car is fine with DCT, but when it comes to fun as in backroads driving, hooning, track days, etc.? I would get a manual Miata over even a 4C.

King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/04/2014 at 00:35

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Just a general point of agreement...it seems all too often that a homerun is right there to be had and manufacturers fucking flub it by going full tilt. They wonder why the 6MT didn't sell (and so will go with a CVT only going forward) but don't seem to realize that its because the Venn diagram of strange cars (like the Juke) have a massive overlay potential for certain options for the sort of people who would actually buy one. It would seem to me to be less expensive to only offer AWD (rather than FWD or AWD) with only one engine (the better one) and then provide an option of transmission in case somebody actually is worried about fuel consumption in this scenario.

fhrblig > Jayhawk Jake 01/04/2014 at 13:17

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My partner bought an AWD Juke last year, and I have to say the CVT works well with it. I like driving it a lot more than I thought I would.

JACU - I've got bonifides. > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/04/2014 at 13:51

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New Forester XT's unavailable with manual transmissions. I know the newer Fozzies are a bit softer than the earlier models, but c'mon. Great motor, AWD and no stick?

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > JACU - I've got bonifides. 01/04/2014 at 13:58

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Damn, I didn't even realize that. A Forester where you can't row your own is just unnatural.

JACU - I've got bonifides. > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/04/2014 at 16:27

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You can still get a manual in one of the NA Foresters.

DontMakeMeUseTheAllCapsKey > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 02/18/2014 at 13:06

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This is actually my strategy to life in general. if you can make people laugh, good things will follow. (note, for best karma results, use self deprecating humor, or make fun of inanimate objects, but never other people, unless they are hippies!)